T11 - Ideals - C 4
A friend of mine is a Librarian so every day he lives a life of rationalizations and compensations. He loves books and reads a lot. His favorite books are usually stories in which good wins out over bad, the idealistic protagonist gets the girl or someone is able to sacrifice something or even themselves for an ideal. And then, he says, there's the rest of his life which is mundane to an extreme. Every day he does what he always does. Even though he works at a job that he's fortunate enough to enjoy, each day he leaves work, has a glass of wine at the café around the corner, goes home, maybe goes out dancing with friends once or twice a week but there's no adventure, he says, no spirit of beauty, no sacrifice. He's thinking of joining the Peace Corp.
posted by Russ | 1:28 AM
3 Comments:
Teale-Marie here. Perhaps your "friendships" seem more shallow now at least in part because your definition of friendship is more demanding than it was back when you were a tender and callow fellow. In one earlier thread, you said that you were lonely a lot when you were young. But here you remember having had a lot of friends. To me, the two don't mesh. Perhaps back in school you knew a lot of people who you liked knowing and who liked knowing you; you were in with an in crowd, and that situation provided you with many of the accoutrements of friendship. Not the same thing.
Think back on all those folks individually: Do you have a sense of a tie to any of them? Or do you instead feel a nostalgia for the good old days? Those who engender nostalgia were, I would say, really just ships passing yours in the night. Those left are the ones who were friends, who have affected (if not effected...) who you are, as you probably did to them as well.
(Or maybe I'm just misunderstanding you, because you say that some old friends are gone because they've moved to another city or another job, and I don't see what that has to do with friendship.)
I've never had more than a few friends (I have more now than ever before, simply because some relationships go back to when I was in school, and there's been a small deluge under the bridge since then, and every once in a while I have the privilege of adding a new one). Lots of "associates," "colleagues," and "buddies." There was never a group, for me, a "crowd." To this day, most of my friends know each other only as a name they hear me mention. Yeah, In weaker moments (mostly when I was younger) I felt that I was on the outside looking in on the social scene but, hey, that's the price I've gotta pay for looking at friendship the way that I do.
Where is "this phenomenon" leading you? First, how do you define the phenomenon? Is it loneliness? Cynicism? Something else?
NO old friends left, Russ? Are you really sure?
Russ here - Thanks Teal-Marie for adding your ideas and questions. I’m still a tender fellow but not so callow anymore.
Oh, sure, loneliness AND having friends mesh. I was thinking of grades seven and eight and again, college years, for the loneliness and high school for the friends with some overlap (of the two feelings) throughout all those years. One day I’d be out with friends and the next feel lonely and alienated. Maybe it was hormones or the beginnings of existential consciousness or alienation or massive ego run awry without good balancing to add perspective. It took me decades to get through all that.
However, you’re right about the ‘accouterments’ of friendship; there were those kinds of people, too, and during those years it was hard to tell the difference. There were a few people who were actually both at different times.
I have remaining ties to only a few old friends although decades later another two returned to be good friends through the classmates web site. And of course I have met some really excellent people on the web. Surprisingly, THOSE occurrences have proven very fruitful! I have no nostalgia for the good old days at all. I hardly ever think of them because emotionally, they weren’t very good at all due to all my
confusions. I’m much more of a futurist and I try and often fail to live in the present through intellectual awareness (at least) of the benefits of meditation (as defined in the novel).
When people move away they can still be friends through various kinds of
communications but there’s nothing quite as fulfilling as the combination of communications AND personal presence, at least once in a while. Communications are excellent; both are superb. Perhaps it’s obvious that I had abandonment issues earlier which I’ve mostly gotten over.
I was hoping that this blog would focus on ideas rather than personalities but I don’t mind getting personal, too.
Deluge under the bridge or over the bridge? Meaning did you lose a lot of friends or gain a lot? The ‘small deluge under the bridge’ sounds like you added some since you have more now than ever before. If so, that’s great! (quality) The old ones we keep for various reasons like loyalty or simply liking them and the new ones add that
sense of newness that makes life interesting and sometimes exciting.
My ‘groups’ have been small, one or two people at a time. Even as a musician few people became friends even though I had access to more people than I could count. Most remained people I just worked with even though I liked doing that kind of work. There were a couple of exceptions who came back into my life as I mentioned.
T-M - “To this day, most of my friends know each other only as a name they hear me mention.”
R - That’s funny! You sound like an organized spy, a ring in your own right, with you as the center and others connected only through you, but I know what you mean. I would guess that most people are like that, having friends who only know ‘of’ each other through them.
WHY do you look at friendship the way that you do?
The phenomenon, ‘ships passing in the night,’ is my sense of inner oneliness. Call it existential, call it alienation - the sense on not being able to connect - call it lack of social skills though that phase passed a long time ago. Call it ego as in wondering
why it’s difficult to find people with whom I can really communicate about things that really matter to me. I have a few old, good friends left and it sounds like you have a few, too.
Someone once said that ‘the mark of intelligence is the ability to keep conflicting thoughts in one’s mind at the same time’ (I’m paraphrasing). We’re all models of intelligence however our intelligence can give us headaches. (Unless we’re intolerant. Then we have no headaches, just spiritual bankruptcy.)
Larry
Definitions: Ideal - existing only in the mind: imaginary; also, lacking practicality; of or relating to perfection: perfect. A standard of excellence; one regarded as a model worthy of imitation.
Idealism - the practice of forming ideals or living under their influence.
Idealize - to think of or represent as ideal.
Ideally - in idea or imagination: mentally; in agreement with an ideal: perfectly.
My idea of an ideal was mostly a behavioral standard of excellence, NOT lacking practicality but through these definitions I see that ideals also encompass the mind and the imagination. When you think of it, it makes sense: creating ideals, standards of excellence, requires excellent imagination, forethought, memory and consideration. Idealism requires additional continuity as one puts their ideals into practice.
Why is this of any interest? Just personal I guess. My expansion of a thought.
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